Enough is Enough

When is Humanity Going to Get That We’re All in This Together?

Well, We Watched the Lost Tomb of Jesus

Posted by honestpoet on March 4, 2007

I found it convincing enough to remove “Jesus Never Existed” from my blogroll.

I’ll write more tomorrow.

We started to watch the debate afterward, but it was clear there wasn’t going to be a real exchange of ideas, and you know how I hate it when men just bombard each other with verbiage.

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8 Responses to “Well, We Watched the Lost Tomb of Jesus”

  1. Before you make up your mind about the “Lost Tomb of Jesus” you need to see and hear the rest of the evidence.

    For a comprehensive and scholarly rebuttal of the film’s evidence please visit ExtremeTheology.com.

    Read and hear the evidence for yourself.

  2. honestpoet said

    Dude, that’s a bunch of Christian proselytizing. That’s the last thing I’m looking for, thanks. Y’all wouldn’t know scholarly if it hit you in the head with a biology textbook.

    What y’all don’t get is that y’all are the sort of people that made us run from church.

    Cameron actually has some of us at least open to the idea that Jesus EXISTED. I still think he was just a man, but at least the possibility of atheist Christianity is something we might consider.

    Those of you who are so eager to dismiss this, so entrenched in an inflexible fundamentalism, are going to be the death of your religion.

  3. majutsu said

    did anyone actually watch the show?

    It was very different than the reading I had done about it.

    And, more importantly, I figured it would be more interesting to dialog the impact this might have if any on various people/groups.

    As for me, I see some influence in my views based on people’s responses. The Catholics and Muslims look hysterical and irrational to me. I am embarrassed to know I was raised Catholic when I reflect on their preemptive denial of any evidence contradicting the physical ascension of mary or jesus. If you think of this, the inquisition, punishing galileo, discouraging birth control in south america . . . they are appearing as horrific beastly opponents to human progress. The liberal protestants’ acceptance of new ideas, while maintaining a core belief in resurrection and eternity but without arrogantly legislating complete knowledge of the details comes across to me sympathetically. Again and again, I am amazed how many people in general make up their minds based on being told what to think in advance by their favorite command center. Really one should watch a TV documentary to judge the premise of the documentary. While this argument does not apply in general (that’s context-switching) like you need to smoke crack to judge crack– that’s erroneous, say because a drug may be judged by negative effects. A single work of art, consisting of visual and auditory media, should be judged in it’s premise and efficacy by experiencing the work of art. It always amazes me how few people feel comfortable forming independent opinions.

  4. honestpoet said

    Ain’t that the truth!

    Say it, Majutsu!

    I still don’t know how to broach the subject with my Christian friends and family.

  5. Mountaineer said

    What I found most satisfying and genuinely entertaining was the discussion afterwards facilitated by Ted Koppel, that pitted the film’s director Simcha Jacobovici and film consultant James Tabor against two scientists, including William Dever. The latter, who explicitly states he is not Christian, is professor emeritus of Near Eastern archaeology and anthropology, University of Arizona. The scientists clearly reflect contempt for the science involved in the documentary. One calls it “archaeo-porn” which, because of its sloppy science, puts archaeology into a bad light. Conclusions are drawn beforehand, and the entire case is built on “if’s” that are huge.
    Even the little I know about archaeology illumined a blatant comment made by Jacobovici. He declared matter of factly, when referring to an ossuary purportedly of Simon Bar Jona (St. Peter) “discovered” in Jerusalem, that there isn’t a shred of evidence of his burial in Rome. On the contrary, I personally was led on an archaeological tour beneath St. Peter’s basilica in Rome to see the tomb of Peter discovered there by scientists.
    The documentary posits that there was found an ossuary clearly inscribed with the name of James, a “brother” of Jesus, next to that claimed as the ossuary of Jesus, and it was for some reason removed. But the original excavator of the tombs said the ossuary discovered next to the claimed Jesus one was totally unmarked and was removed because of that.
    We could go on. The bottom line is that the Discovery Channel documentary was simply a dramatic presentation of some discovered ossuaries with common 1st century AD names, artificially tied together by a preconceived theory that they are those of Jesus and his family; and that the methods used to come to that conclusion are criticized and mocked even by scientists of no faith adherence.

  6. honestpoet said

    I’m sure you did find it satisfying. It was clearly made to satisfy all those folks, like you, no doubt, who had made up their minds long before seeing the show. The conclusions you draw are typical for someone who clearly doesn’t want to believe that Jesus was simply a man.

    I started to watch the debate afterwards, and turned it off when it became clear that Ted Koppel was biased (whether because of his own faith or because that’s what he was directed to do) and wasn’t going to let Mr. Jacobovici really say what he wanted to say, which was that he’d created a show that was simply to present evidence in a compelling way to encourage others to investigate the find more seriously.

    BTW, archeo-porn was a hugely pejorative neologism that betrayed the mindset of the speaker…a sexually repressed dualist, probably a closet Christian who, despite trying to appear to be rational, still hasn’t let go. After he used it, I had trouble taking the man seriously.

  7. Mountaineer said

    Yes, you have it right. I am indeed “biased” – the bias that comes from a life of study of Scripture and theology and dedication to Christ. It’s like the “bias” of a scientist who is approached by someone with a theory that the earth is square.
    The agenda of the filmaker is so evident in his presentation. All findings are bent towards a preconceived notion. When he tries to interpret ossuary writings on a casket of Mary Magdalene to meen “Mary the master” is a good example. The writings are in Greek, not Aramaic. In Greek they mean “Mary who is Martha”. But our filmmaker says “Mara” means master. So we are to believe the ossuary inscriber mixed languages. It’s like a kid saying to me :”That’s my mamma (mother).” And a friend looks at me surprised. I ask why. He says: “She called the lady her breast!” (“Mamma” means breast in Latin). But she was speaking English!!!

  8. honestpoet said

    Comparing a life of study of scripture to a life of scientific study is silly. One is based in old books written by men who, in fact, thought the world was flat, the other in observation of physical reality.

    Your bias is so thick, you have so much invested in not believing the possibility that Jesus could be found dead, that I’m not sure why you expect me to listen to any of your arguments.

    Before this report came out I actually believed that Jesus had never existed at all. I had to admit the possibility that I was wrong. But most Christians seem incapable of such an admission. You’ve held on to ridiculous beliefs for so long, I’m not sure why I’m surprised by the intractability of your mindset. But I am disappointed.

    Thank you for your input, though, and your relative lack of emotionalism.

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